"feeling defensive" continued growth.

[DavidsSong]

Just joined yesterday and thought i would start myself off with a question,
i've been owned for almost a year now, started off by internet Dom/sub experiences, mostly rollplaying in secondlife.com in the Gorean community, found that i loved it, needed it really, brings me so much happiness!

i have so many questions really and, hope to meet other submissives to learn, share advice etc.

Though i feel i'm progressing along at a good pace with my training and learning, i still have a pressing issue with a defiant nature when in a particulary rough session, i can't seem to get it out of my head that i'm not being personally attacked, i need not put up a wall to defend myself. its something i realize after having thought it out after the session, but its frustrating i can't break through this wall, definetly my biggest hurdle, anyone else have this problem? and how do you deal with it?

[gapeach]

can you explain a little more what you mean by 'defiant nature' during rough play? are you 'submitting' to things that you're not comfortable with? have these things been discussed beforehand (if that's what it is)...

also, you say something to the effect of 'personally attacked'... are you talking about verbal attacks, or do you feel like the play is an attack?

no worries, i always stay a little lost in things at times! just trying to better understand your situation and where you're coming from :)

[DavidsSong]

Hi! thanks for the reply and question.

i think most of us have our walls, and it can be a bit tricky when an argument arises, granted a sub should not argue with her Dom, but its just unavoidable in some circumstances, when for instance he's offering constructive critism, maybe i'm displaying the poor me attitude, or on a more simple level, just being depressed, being told i'm being overly dramatic, etc.. i instantly find myself on the defensive. -

its something i've been trying very hard to get over, i just don't have the tools to do it, and i find myself failing over and over. I keep losing faith in myself and feeling like " i just don't have what it takes " its so dissappointing. i know it stems from lack of trust ultimately.

[gapeach]

let me first say that i have no Dom - just a rowdy lil bottom here - lol... aaah, i'm sub, deep inside - just haven't found the 'Right One' yet (again)...so, with that being said, i don't really have anyone that 'critiques' me...

honestly, the first thing that jumped out at me was the comment about the lack of trust... personally, i will not drop the panties for a whacking (or anything else similar, or give over the mind either) without complete trust in the One - if i'm not fully aware/comfortable with Their 'abilities', both mentally and physically, then i owe it to myself to 'protect' myself...

that being said, i'm thinking there's got to be some trust there, else you'd not be in the 'relationship'..does He know that it's hard for you to take constructive criticism? does He also give you the 'strokes' and the 'good girl's for things done right? there's gotta be the 'warm fuzzies' - else we'd all dread going into things!

don't be too hard on yourself! Rome wasn't built in a day :) we all learn different things every day! i know that the dynamics of relationships are unique to those involved in it - would some reading about the 'generalities' of BDSM help you? or maybe reading about Oothers situations/thoughts/feelings/dilemmas might help... but, i think, first and foremost, you and your Dom need to have open lines of communication...you've GOT to be able to talk openly and honestly with each Oother at all times... take it from one that has failed mind reading 101 over and over again! lol

i'd almost suggest a doctor visit, if the depressions are constant, or they intefere with your life.. maybe there's a medical reason for things... not saying that i believe a drug is a cure-all for everything, only, that, maybe, the body needs a little help with things...or maybe a Mentor or confidante...

in the meantime, when you get up each morning, look around you and be thankful for the things you see, the things you have, the ability to get outta bed in the morning!! find joy in the singing bird outside the window, the rain that feeds the earth, and the sun that warms us...and try not to dwell on the negatives - they're just little hurdles in life that we all have to get a little running start to get over!

*huggs - and offers a lil chocolate :)

[Kat]

i think i may relate to this a bit... sometimes in past experiences ive felt insubordinate after awhile... i get irritable and therefore, defiant. most times its because im feeling particularly hungry for attention. when i feel like i havent gotten praised in a while i get rebellious or sulky and act out for attention.

[DavidsSong]

Some good points! as far as trust goes, I do trust him, probably more then I've ever trusted a sole person in my life, I've found with time that i've been able to open msyelf up more to him then anyone. It just takes time like anything and i'm getting one babystep closer.

i'm rewarded fairly well, and we all require different things in order to feel fulfilled, for me itsfeeling loved, wanted.. never been one much for monetary or objects. he has always been very good about telling me how well i'm progressing, which is always good to hear.

as far as Dr's are concerned in the past i'd struggled with traumatic stress syndrom, and there are times when i think i may need a bit more help with that, all in all i would compare it to just generic "blues" , he's also instrumental in being there for me, though perhaps its because i'm on edge and feeling defenseive, but i generally feel he doesn't understand me well enough to help.. a touchy subject as it weighs on if i'm literally needing help with my emotional stability, or am i being lazy?

thank you so much for your responses!! its so good to have somone to talk to, sometimes being a submissives can leave a person feeling rather alone, as for me, not something that people really know about:) not that i would hide it, its just not the norm for most people.

[gapeach]

*points skyward.. it's a full moon, yanno.. lol ;)

i hope that writing/talking about things help... it does tend to help me sort things out sometimes...

[voyrjo]

I think I know what you are referring to here. I'll first add that I don't know any specifics, but just guessing based on what you have stated, and my impressions only. It seems as if this defiant nature that is coming out might be in the interpersonal aspect of the relationship. Not sure the nature of it outside of submitting... but sometimes there can be a closeness felt, an deeper feeling of connection outside of submitting... whereby you want to be seen as an equal (just as in daily life, one wants to be seen just as equal to everyone else). And when the submission is undertaken, there comes a time when something "breaks" the spell so to speak. It differs for everyone, just how easily or how long it takes to subdue your 'normal' state of mind and enter into submission... and what aspects occur that can trigger responses which are rooted deeper than the 'sub-state' you are in at that time. The 'control' aspect of everyone's personality (that which we use to maintain the daily grind of life) begins to monitor everything.... not allowing certain things which you might find offensive, degrading, demeaning in your 'normal' daily life. For example... I LOVE for a woman to tease, humiliate, ridicule and such WHILE we are playing (and depending on who maybe outside if I am comfortable with them). But would not want this occurring in daily life! The comfortability and trust you have with someone is key. You say you have a good trust with this person. AWESOME! Communicate your feelings... don't "have it out" with them... BEFORE you submit. Make sure things that are touchy are understood by them, and handled by them as they should be in this relationship. Make sure that they understand that your submission NEEDS... say it again, NEEDS to have more care and loving aspects when nearing the end of a scene/session and especially after. To reach such in-depth personal subspace... (if you are entering into it fully or even just a little)... is capable of opening vast thresholds of feelings. A lot of which may be so rooted into your psyche that both good and bad feelings or memories even may be triggered. I agree that 'Rome was not built in a day" as stated prior. And we all at times rush a bit, when succumbing to new experiences desired. But, when play is triggering a defensive reaction (which is normal!!!), take the time to slow things down a bit. If your dom(me) is as good as you are saying, then they will definitely understand and want to move more gradually... in order to reach the goals you both want to experience together.

[Kat]

...And when the submission is undertaken, there comes a time when something "breaks" the spell so to speak. It differs for everyone, just how easily or how long it takes to subdue your 'normal' state of mind and enter into submission...

i like the way you phrased that, the 'breaking the spell' bit seems like a really good analogy. i relate to this, as well... in my learning experiences as of late, ive realized that im not content just being a sub in play... that my relationships with my Dom/mes have delved deeper than just that spell-binding sub worship during play, and have stretched into day to day life.
but i still have those moments when i 'snap to' and feel the need to re-establish myself as independant with my Dom/me...
its just something that will work itself out in time, when i find a dom/me who i have a strong enough relationship with that i will be able to submit to completely.

[voyrjo]

Thanks Kat. It is sorta the way it happens, at least for me when it has, and glad to see others can relate to the analogy. I think for most of us it happens, at least at the beginnings. And some find it difficult when trying to crossover easily. It is then when I try and remind that in 'trying' to crossover to submission, is most likely a possible root cause for being unable to. Our minds are still working at determining what, how, when to do things... trying to get into that mindset. When we are able to relax, not just with those we are with which is important, but what I see as even more importantly- OURSELVES, is when we can more easily enter a 'sub mode'. I know several times at the beginning the nervousness (which is a part of playing, the excitement etc) at opening up with the multitude of fetishes I have was keeping me 'in check'. I mean you typically don't go around saying to people, "I love when a woman catches/watches/forces me to masturbate as she humiliates me" or "I love a woman urinating on me"... it would be quite a shocker for most! I think it is why it is so difficult in meeting new people who even share similar interests in kink. It is rather a reverse order of confession... meaning, most times we are quite comfortable speaking of our kinks and fetishes within the online anonymity environment, but when it comes to providing more info about themselves personally (real life info) the walls come up and we are instantly attempting to go back in the closet, so to speak. Most times we have no problem sharing with someone new in regular meetings, and are guarded with our kinks. Being more comfortable with our kinks, and trusting ourselves to understand them, learn about them, etc makes it easier to be able to be open with another. We will of course ALWAYS be guarded when dealing with those 'outside' the kink/fetish lifestyle until sincerity and true acceptance is shown, and there are gameplayers on both sides of the gender spectrum making it more difficult to share and explore. But in acknowledging ourselves... EMPOWERING OURSELVES with understanding the nature, levels, and kinds of things we enjoy... will it enable you to wear the role of your kink/fetish preferences. Which allows you to more easily meet others and become what you want to experience with them. I found it is easy for me to now enter into a submissive role, fairly quickly... and I mean a full compliance role (not just doing as they say/command). Meaning sometimes I find that I rarely speak unless questioned or asked to, silently obeying.. unless of course there is...uh, abundance of stimuli happening physically!
Most times after conversing, and getting to know them a bit more beforehand... even from online.... I perform whatever tasks WITHIN a deepened sub mode right from the get go. It is a frame of mind thing, I think.

[SexBunny]

I'm having the same issues. My fiance, Sir, and I have been together for a long time now and our passion began to fade. Sir tried his best to please me, but I just lost any lebedo I had. That's when Sir asked me if I wanted to be his sub and eventually his 24/7 slave. I don't like the term "slave" yet because, to me, it means I have no say. And I've always thought of myself as an independent person, but I can FEEL that this is right for me. We're jumping straight into the 24/7 part because I was already submissive in the bedroom. I'm excited with where we are going, but I'm so scared also. I trust him with my life and soul, but I don't want to lose myself. Sir keeps telling me that I'm not going to and that I'll more free than anything. I have A LOT of stress in my life and I have to admit that letting Sir take over does take a lot of weight off my shoulders. I just don't know how to give myself completely to him and I do feel very defiant. Especially when I don't do something he told me to and get in trouble. I've always been very argumentative. Another thing I think that I should mention is the fact that during a "scene," I feel VERY submissive and willing. It's in the everyday life that I need help with. Sir is a very good Master though, and I want to please him, and myself, by giving in and let him collar me. I just don't know how to get passed that wall that I have up. Any advice? I need help with the transition from Vanilla to Slave.